[nylug-talk] Paper IT certs and disk drive fabrication differences -- WAS: Slim home server

[Gregg Levine]

On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Bryan J. Smith <b.j.smith at ieee.org> wrote:
> On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 10:49 PM, Michael Bacarella
>> What qualifies as a non-degreed engineer?  Can a high school dropout
>> with a number of years of field experience take an exam to be a PE?
>
> I'll let the NYSPE do the talking for me:
>  http://www.op.nysed.gov/pelic.htm#credits
>
> That's the lowest set of requirements I've ever seen -- ABET BSE + 4
> years to No Degree + 12 years.
>
>> What's the closest one to "software engineering?" ;-)
>
> The NSPE and other boards have been hesistant to qualify "software" as
> an engineering discipline in the public trust.  However, states like
> Texas have moved forward on the matter.  In any case, you can be
> expected to be tested on the same, broad engineering fundamentals (FE
> exam) and specific controls, feedback, interaction, state, etc... in
> additional to traditional electrical engineering (Practices exam).
>
> On Thu, 2008-05-22 at 01:27 -0400, Gregg Levine wrote:
>> I'll second that with, "Can a hobbyist who's got an associates degree
>> in repairing the things, plus well over at least twenty years
>> experience, plus about one to two years internship in the field get
>> one as well?".
>
> What type of "internship"?
>
> Understand what the NCEES and state BoPEs are looking for are actual
> _design_ experience using _engineering_ principles.  Technical
> experience is not the same.
>
> E.g., laying out a network is the equivalent of "installing" like a
> construction worker, who reads specifications of something someone else
> designed, not designing the actual networking equipment any more than a
> construction worker designs the building.  ;)
>
> And yes, construction workers do know how to use tools, just like IT
> people do.  E.g., running an engineering groundstation.  ;)
>
>> Just thought I'd add to the controversy swirling around on this
>> subject.
>
> Engineering is not technology, it's applied science.  That's why
> engineering and engineering technology are separate.  You _can_ get an
> engineering technology license as well, don't forget that.  ;)
>
> Engineering is ...
> - Microeconomics
> - Physics
> - General civil-mechanical-electro concepts (statics, dynamics, fluids,
> thermodynamics, materials, etc...)
> - Social impact
>
> And most importantly, _all_ with calculus.  Calculus is not something
> you "learn" in engineering, it is what you "apply."  You can't describe
> a system of interactions without it, which is what engineers do.  I have
> had it up to my neck in BS "popular environmentalism" from people who do
> not understand the first thing about how to describe a system.  People
> who use compounding algebra non-sense to do so come up with wacky
> numbers (like more material in a system than you started with ;).
>
> You _will_ be tested on these in the FE exam.  The Practices exam may be
> more application and specific, but don't expect to see software
> questions or even general algorithms.  You're going to be tested on
> engineering principles and practices.
>
> Assuming you can sit them, of course.  You life will go through a
> half-year peer-review, including references from other PEs, requiring
> you to detail your engineering-related experiences, etc...
>
>> And Mike don't worry about your BB's explorations into the Mobil World
>> of Google Mail, it happens to everyone who dove into that rabbit hole.
>
> Don't get me started on GMail, especially it's early
> implementations.  ;)
>
>
>
> --
> Bryan J  Smith              Professional, Technical Annoyance
> mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org  http://www.linkedin.com/in/bjsmith
> -------------------------------------------------------------

Hello!
Okay I won't.
But to answer your question about an internship, I spent the time
working in a computer store in Queens NY essentially repairing systems
and setting up new ones. Also the full range of operating systems were
players here (or there).

I should also say that I appreciate the level of discourse we have had
in this discussion.
-- 
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature was once found posting rude
 messages in English in the Moscow subway."