[nylug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Benefits/drawbacks of building Linux as a package [was: Looking for recommendations on Linux Distro]

[Ruben Safir]

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 05:20:03PM -0400, Michael Werneke wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 2:43 AM, Ruben Safir <ruben at mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
> 
> > also for what it is worth, I'm looking forward to the day that this
> > can work on my standard PC.  I hope I'm not dead before this can get my
> > sound card running.
> >
> > http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd.html
> >
> > Introduction to the Hurd
> >
> > The GNU Hurd is the GNU project's replacement for the Unix kernel. The
> > Hurd is a collection of servers that run on the Mach microkernel to
> > implement file systems, network protocols, file access control, and
> > other features that are implemented by the Unix kernel or similar kernels
> > (such as Linux).
> >
> > Currently, the Hurd runs on IA32 machines. The Hurd should, and probably
> > will, be ported to other hardware architectures or other microkernels
> > in the future.  Advantages of the Hurd The Hurd is not the most advanced
> > kernel known to the planet (yet), but it does have a number of enticing
> > features:
> >
> > it's free software
> >    Anybody can use, modify, and redistribute it under the terms of the
> >    GNU General Public License (GPL).
> > it's compatible
> >    The Hurd provides a familiar programming and user environment. For all
> >    intents and purposes, the Hurd is a modern Unix-like kernel. The Hurd
> >    uses the GNU C Library, whose development closely tracks standards
> >    such as ANSI/ISO, BSD, POSIX, Single Unix, SVID, and X/Open.
> > it's built to survive
> >    Unlike other popular kernel software, the Hurd has an object-oriented
> >    structure that allows it to evolve without compromising its
> >    design. This structure will help the Hurd undergo major redesign
> >    and modifications without having to be entirely rewritten.
> > it's scalable
> >    The Hurd implementation is aggressively multithreaded so that
> >    it runs efficiently on both single processors and symmetric
> >    multiprocessors. The Hurd interfaces are designed to allow transparent
> >    network clusters (collectives), although this feature has not yet
> >    been implemented.
> > it's extensible
> >    The Hurd is an attractive platform for learning how to become a kernel
> >    hacker or for implementing new ideas in kernel technology. Every
> >    part of the system is designed to be modified and extended.
> > it's stable
> >    It is possible to develop and test new Hurd kernel components without
> >    rebooting the machine (not even accidentally). Running your own kernel
> >    components doesn't interfere with other users, and so no special
> >    system privileges are required. The mechanism for kernel extensions is
> >    secure by design: it is impossible to impose your changes upon other
> >    users unless they authorize them or you are the system administrator.
> > it exists
> >    The Hurd is real software that works Right Now. It is not a research
> >    project or a proposal. You don't have to wait at all before you can
> >    start using and developing it.
> >
> > What the Hurd means According to Thomas Bushnell, BSG, the primary
> > architect of the Hurd:
> >
> >    `Hurd' stands for `Hird of Unix-Replacing Daemons'. And, then,
> >    `Hird' stands for `Hurd of Interfaces Representing Depth'. We have
> >    here, to my knowledge, the first software to be named by a pair of
> >    mutually recursive acronyms.
> >
> > Status of the project
> >
> > The Hurd, together with the GNU Mach microkernel, the GNU C Library and
> > the other GNU and non-GNU programs in the GNU system, provide a rather
> > complete and usable operating system today. It is not ready for production
> > use, as there are still many bugs and missing features. However, it should
> > be a good base for further development and non-critical application usage.
> >
> > The GNU system (also called GNU/Hurd) is completely self-contained
> > (you can compile all parts of it using GNU itself). You can run several
> > instances of the Hurd in parallel, and debug even critical servers in
> > one Hurd instance with gdb running on another Hurd instance. You can
> > run the X window system, applications that use it, and advanced server
> > applications like the Apache webserver.
> >
> > On the negative side, the support for character devices (like sound cards)
> > and other hardware is mostly missing. Although the POSIX interface
> > is provided, some additional interfaces like POSIX shared memory or
> > semaphores are still under development.
> >
> > All this applies to the current development version, and not to the last
> > release (0.2). We encourage everybody who is interested to try out the
> > latest development version, and send feedback to the Hurd developers.
> >
> > Heh. The HURD is a mess. The partitioning scheme is so incredibly
> convoluted and confusing that it will most certainly never be a mainstream
> OS. Granted, it may indeed be a superior way to partition disks but no one
> but a hardcore geek will ever gr0k it enough to actually use it. Even
> Linux's way of naming disks and partitions is so greatly different from
> Windows, that newbies to linux have an incredibly difficult time wrapping
> their heads around it.


That's the fault of windows, not Linux, but we covered the concept pretty
well in the GNU/Linux I course that NYLXS runs.