[nylug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Benefits/drawbacks of building Linux as a package [was: Looking for recommendations on Linux Distro]

[Ruben Safir]

also for what it is worth, I'm looking forward to the day that this
can work on my standard PC.  I hope I'm not dead before this can get my
sound card running.

http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd.html

Introduction to the Hurd

The GNU Hurd is the GNU project's replacement for the Unix kernel. The
Hurd is a collection of servers that run on the Mach microkernel to
implement file systems, network protocols, file access control, and
other features that are implemented by the Unix kernel or similar kernels
(such as Linux).

Currently, the Hurd runs on IA32 machines. The Hurd should, and probably
will, be ported to other hardware architectures or other microkernels
in the future.  Advantages of the Hurd The Hurd is not the most advanced
kernel known to the planet (yet), but it does have a number of enticing
features:

it's free software
    Anybody can use, modify, and redistribute it under the terms of the
    GNU General Public License (GPL).
it's compatible
    The Hurd provides a familiar programming and user environment. For all
    intents and purposes, the Hurd is a modern Unix-like kernel. The Hurd
    uses the GNU C Library, whose development closely tracks standards
    such as ANSI/ISO, BSD, POSIX, Single Unix, SVID, and X/Open.
it's built to survive
    Unlike other popular kernel software, the Hurd has an object-oriented
    structure that allows it to evolve without compromising its
    design. This structure will help the Hurd undergo major redesign
    and modifications without having to be entirely rewritten.
it's scalable
    The Hurd implementation is aggressively multithreaded so that
    it runs efficiently on both single processors and symmetric
    multiprocessors. The Hurd interfaces are designed to allow transparent
    network clusters (collectives), although this feature has not yet
    been implemented.
it's extensible
    The Hurd is an attractive platform for learning how to become a kernel
    hacker or for implementing new ideas in kernel technology. Every
    part of the system is designed to be modified and extended.
it's stable
    It is possible to develop and test new Hurd kernel components without
    rebooting the machine (not even accidentally). Running your own kernel
    components doesn't interfere with other users, and so no special
    system privileges are required. The mechanism for kernel extensions is
    secure by design: it is impossible to impose your changes upon other
    users unless they authorize them or you are the system administrator.
it exists
    The Hurd is real software that works Right Now. It is not a research
    project or a proposal. You don't have to wait at all before you can
    start using and developing it.

What the Hurd means According to Thomas Bushnell, BSG, the primary
architect of the Hurd:

    `Hurd' stands for `Hird of Unix-Replacing Daemons'. And, then,
    `Hird' stands for `Hurd of Interfaces Representing Depth'. We have
    here, to my knowledge, the first software to be named by a pair of
    mutually recursive acronyms.

Status of the project

The Hurd, together with the GNU Mach microkernel, the GNU C Library and
the other GNU and non-GNU programs in the GNU system, provide a rather
complete and usable operating system today. It is not ready for production
use, as there are still many bugs and missing features. However, it should
be a good base for further development and non-critical application usage.

The GNU system (also called GNU/Hurd) is completely self-contained
(you can compile all parts of it using GNU itself). You can run several
instances of the Hurd in parallel, and debug even critical servers in
one Hurd instance with gdb running on another Hurd instance. You can
run the X window system, applications that use it, and advanced server
applications like the Apache webserver.

On the negative side, the support for character devices (like sound cards)
and other hardware is mostly missing. Although the POSIX interface
is provided, some additional interfaces like POSIX shared memory or
semaphores are still under development.

All this applies to the current development version, and not to the last
release (0.2). We encourage everybody who is interested to try out the
latest development version, and send feedback to the Hurd developers.

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 02:35:03AM -0400, Ruben Safir wrote: > On Sat,
Mar 15, 2008 at 08:48:34PM -0400, Ron Guerin wrote: > > Ruben Safir wrote:
> > > > > Package managers by and large, actually all of them, suck in
the first place > > > Your checklist is wishful thinking.  And I'm not
talking out of my hat.  I'm > > > talking from a SUSE 5.3 distro running
on a P2 right now which has been continually patched > > > by hand for
a LOT of years now.  > > > > If by suck, you mean works extremely well
and makes millions of people > > happy, then yeah, most of them suck.
Our package managers suck.  I wish > > everything sucked as much as my
package manager does.  > > > > > The single biggest mistake someone can
make aside from a dread aweful > > > rm command in jest is to install the
Kernel from anything but an authenticed > > > source from kernel.org.  >
> > > This advice runs counter to that of kernel maintainers, especially
one > > fellow named Linus Torvalds, who said quite some years ago that
the > > kernel.org kernel would henceforth not be a finished and ready
to use > > kernel, IHHO.  The quote was something along the lines of
"that's the > > job of the packagers" > > > > > Also - for what it is
worth > > >From the Kernel README file: > > INSTALLING the kernel: >
>  - If you install the full sources, put the kernel tarball in a >
directory where you have permissions (eg. your home directory) and >
unpack it: > >                 gzip -cd linux-2.6.XX.tar.gz | tar xvf -
> >    Replace "XX" with the version number of the latest kernel.  >
>    Do NOT use the /usr/src/linux area! This area has a (usually >
incomplete) set of kernel headers that are used by the library header
>    files.  They should match the library, and not get messed up by >
whatever the kernel-du-jour happens to be.  > >  - You can also upgrade
between 2.6.xx releases by patching.  Patches are >    distributed in the
traditional gzip and the new bzip2 format.  To >    install by patching,
get all the newer patch files, enter the >    top level directory of
the kernel source (linux-2.6.xx) and execute: > >                 gzip
-cd ../patch-2.6.xx.gz | patch -p1 > > > etc etc > > > "Yeah - I write
Free Software...so SUE ME" > © Copyright for the Digital Millennium

-- http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff http://www.nylxs.com -
Leadership Development in Free Software

So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like
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RI Safir 1998

http://fairuse.nylxs.com  DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS -
RI Safir 2002

"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"

"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers
to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in
our own society."

"> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be
damned.< You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and
technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in
Ancient Egypt.  I guess you missed that one."

© Copyright for the Digital Millennium