[nylug-talk] How to get a Windows tax refund

Jay Sulzberger jays at panix.com
Sat Jan 6 15:26:34 EST 2007



On Sat, 6 Jan 2007, Gregg Levine wrote:

> On 1/6/07, Jay Sulzberger <jays at panix.com> wrote:
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>   Subject: Articles
>   X-URL: http://community.linux.com/print.pl?sid=07/01/03/227237
>
>
>                                      Linux.com
>                            The Enterprise Linux Resource
>                             http://community.linux.com/
>
>      Title     How to get a Windows tax refund
>      Date      2007.01.05 13:02
>      Author    StoneLion
>      Topic
>
>      http://community.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/01/03/227237
>
>      If you buy a computer, you often pay for Microsoft Windows even if you
>      didn't ask for it and aren't going to use it. This article shows you
>      how to return your unused Windows license and get your money back,
>      freeing yourself from the Windows tax.
>
>      I recently purchased a new laptop computer from Dell. As a GNU/Linux
>      user and believer in Free Software, I knew from the start that I
>      wasn't going to run Microsoft Windows. Unfortunately, Dell didn't
>      offer this laptop with Ubuntu or a no-OS option, so I tried getting my
>      Windows refund from Dell after the purchase. After working with
>      customer service, I received a refund of $52.50. In the course of
>      getting my refund, I found some techniques worked better than others.
>      By knowing what works, you may be able to get your refund quickly and
>      easily.
>
>      Be prepared and set realistic expectations
>
>      Before you go down this route, be prepared. Getting your Windows
>      refund may take several hours of work, after which you'll get a small
>      amount of money -- nowhere near the full retail price of Windows on
>      the store shelf. Though your win may be more of a victory for
>      principle than your pocketbook, it is possible to win, and you'll have
>      made an important stand.
>
>      Getting a Windows refund only works if your computer is new. If you've
>      booted into Windows once and hit the Accept button at the end of the
>      Microsoft EULA, you're disqualified. Ideally you'll plan on getting
>      your Windows refund before placing your order with the vendor. If you
>      are ordering a new machine, first call the vendor to see if they offer
>      a no-OS option. If they do, use it. If the machine does not come
>      without an installed OS and you have to buy Windows, purchase the
>      lowest-end Windows that you can. In my case, that meant buying the
>      computer with Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition.
>
>      When your computer arrives, document each step of unloading your
>      computer. I took a tip from UK reporter Dave Mitchell, who received a
>      Windows refund from Dell, and took pictures of myself at each step of
>      the process, including opening the box and each and every page of the
>      Microsoft EULA. I zoomed in on the relevant section about returning
>      the license to the vendor. I also zoomed in on the radio button which
>      says "Do Not Accept" and showed myself rejecting the license. This
>      will add some time to your initial computer use, but is proof that you
>      read and rejected the license.
>
>      Before you make the call, have everything you need in front of you.
>      You should have all the details of your order, including the order
>      number, date purchased, and even your credit card number. You should
>      have the computer's serial number and, in the case of Dell, its
>      Express Service Code. Later in the process, you may need your Windows
>      Certificate of Authenticity (COA) key. It's on the holographic label
>      usually found on the bottom of the laptop. You might find it easier to
>      just have the laptop itself handy.
>
>      You'll also want to have the text of the EULA ready. You probably
>      don't need the entire thing, but the specific wording about returning
>      Windows to the vendor may become key.
>
>      Lastly, you're going to want to have a pen and paper ready. If your
>      phone is wireless, you'll want to be sure it's fully charged, and keep
>      a beverage handy -- you could be on the phone a while.
>
>      Preparing for the call
>
>      By this time in the process, you're probably itching to get on the
>      phone, get on your soapbox, and get your refund. Resist the urge.
>      Remember that you're looking to exercise a legal right. You're not
>      going to change anyone's mind about Free Software, and any extra time
>      you spend in the process only takes you further from your goal.
>
>      Be polite. A customer service representative is used to handling
>      dozens of issues a day, but your issue is going to be outside the
>      norm. The person on the other end of the phone is your representation
>      on the company's side, so you want to keep him or her as happy as
>      possible. Don't get angry, don't yell, don't be rude. If things become
>      tense, disarm the situation with kindness, and, if it's appropriate, a
>      joke.
>
>      You will be put on hold. Dell is fairly good about not leaving folks
>      on hold (especially business customers), but I was put on hold a
>      number of times. There's nothing you can do about it, so just be
>      polite and accept it. What you're asking for is so unusual that
>      they'll probably need to call supervisors. Let them.
>
>      Expect excuses. They're going to look for ways not to give you the
>      refund. After all, they've never heard of this, so it must be
>      impossible. My first customer service rep said that he couldn't refund
>      my license because I wasn't charged for it. If you hear something like
>      this, don't be discouraged, and don't take it as the final word. I'll
>      tell you how to counter these sorts of arguments in a moment.
>
>      Don't argue, escalate. If you find you're not getting anywhere with
>      your customer service representative, or you're going over the same
>      point several times, it's time to escalate. Remember our previous
>      guideline of not being rude. You can ask to be transferred without
>      making it into a confrontation. Be sympathetic: "I see that you're
>      trying your best, but that you're not able to do anything else for me.
>      Would it be possible for you to transfer me to someone else?"
>
>      Be persistent. You'll probably have to speak with several people,
>      repeat yourself, and hear lots of excuses about how you're not
>      entitled to what you're asking for. You're in the right, and as long
>      as you're in the pipeline, you're making progress. When you're not
>      making any more progress, escalate.
>
>      Don't settle. At several points in my communications with customer
>      service, I was offered coupons, even in excess of what I was asking
>      for, but coupons aren't money. Politely explain that you're looking
>      for a refund in cash (or credit back to your credit card).
>
>      Use the precedents. If you're in the UK, you can mention reporter Dave
>      Mitchell as someone whose already received a Windows refund. If you're
>      in the US, you can use me. If they've given refunds to the two of us,
>      why not you?
>
>      During the call, you may find that the customer service representative
>      will come back to you with several excuses about why you're not
>      entitled to your refund. I've compiled a list of them, some which I
>      heard and others which I didn't, and good responses to them.
>
>      "You can't return the operating system because the computer can't work
>      without it."
>
>      That's the easiest argument to counter. Explain that you run GNU/Linux
>      (or FreeBSD, or whatever operating system you've replaced Windows
>      with).
>
>      "You didn't pay anything for Windows."
>
>      Since the price of Windows was included in the price of the computer,
>      they may try to argue that you didn't pay anything for it. This one is
>      easy to debunk. Windows costs money -- everyone knows that. Once you
>      establish that Windows does indeed cost money (and you can't get it
>      for free) then the only remaining issue is how much you paid. Since
>      Microsoft contracts out with hardware vendors, there's no actual way
>      to know how much Windows costs a given retailer. This being the case,
>      I was asking for the price of an OEM copy of Windows XP Home SP2 that
>      I found on Newegg, which was $89. In the end they gave me $52.50. I
>      don't know if this is really how much Windows costs, but it's a
>      non-trivial amount and I can well imagine that one of the world's
>      largest computer makers can get a good deal on Windows licenses from
>      Microsoft.
>
>      "You bought the bundle."
>
>      They may tell your purchase was a bundle, that Windows came on the
>      computer as a packaged set and you can't return one without the other.
>      What you have on your side to counter this is the license itself,
>      which says that you may choose to not accept the license and return it
>      to the vendor. No matter what they say regarding a bundle, the legal
>      wording of the license is clear. I heard the B word several times, and
>      each time I explained the terms of the license to them, with the
>      license wording at hand in case I needed to quote it verbatim. If the
>      customer representative tries to cut the conversation short saying
>      it's a bundle, stay polite, but explain that the license is quite
>      clear and that you're just going by the legal wording and exercising
>      your right to return the operating system.
>
>      "How about a coupon?"
>
>      I was offered coupons several times. I'm guessing that coupons are
>      easy to give to customers as a way to keep them happy. While you're
>      rejecting the coupons, realize that this is a small victory. All you
>      have to do at that point is ask for cash.
>
>      "You need to return the CD."
>
>      As a condition to getting my Windows refund, I was required to give
>      the COA key to the customer representative and return the Windows CD
>      itself. Dell was kind enough to pay for shipping of the CD, so all I
>      had to pay for was the envelope. Your vendor may not be as generous
>      regarding the shipping, but by this time, you've won.
>
>      You win - or not
>
>      If you're not working with Dell, you may not have the same success. In
>      this case, you might need to take another tack. Small claims court may
>      be an option. You file paperwork with the court, pay a small fee, and
>      show up in court with all your documentation. You'll need to make your
>      case quickly and succinctly. You may also want to contact the Better
>      Business Bureau for help. Many reputable businesses take the BBB
>      seriously and may be more willing to work with you after it has
>      contacted them. In any case, you'll be spending time and money to
>      resolve the issue, but so will the vendor, so they're likely to look
>      for an amiable solution as quickly as possible.
>
>      To summarize:
>        * You're only eligible for a refund on new computers
>        * Document everything
>        * Be prepared
>        * Be polite
>        * Be persistent
>        * Be gracious
>
>      If you follow these guidelines, you're likely to come out with a
>      working computer without the Windows tax.
>
>      I would be remiss if I did not offer a special thank you to Dell.
>      Despite my initial difficulties, Dell eventually came through. After
>      hearing stories on the Net about folks having to bring their vendor to
>      small claims court, I'm happy I picked a company with reasonable
>      policies and people. I especially want to thank Seema, the floor
>      manager who worked with me on my case and offered me the refund.
>
>      Links
>        _________________________________________________________________
>
>       1. "Dave Mitchell" -
>          http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6144782.stm
>       2. "Small claims court may be an option" -
>          http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7040
>        _________________________________________________________________
>
>                � Copyright 2007 - LiNUX.COM, All Rights Reserved
>        _________________________________________________________________
>
>      printed from Linux.com, How to get a Windows tax refund on 2007-01-06
>      09:58:49
>
>
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Hello!
Well done Jay. However that does not cover one unique issue. Dell does
indeed sell a no OS machine. You just need to insist on asking for it.
Its a specie of Dell Dimension that's currently available. There was
an entry for it in Linux Journal sometime last year.
-- 
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature was once found posting rude
  messages in English in the Moscow subway."

Ah, Serge Wroclawski is the refund getter here.

I do not know whether Dell sells any home computer without a
Microsoft OS.  Certainly they do not sell one at a lower price
than the same computer with a Microsoft OS already installed.  On
the Dell website, only Microsoft OSes are advertised.

oo--JS.


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