[nylug-talk] ubuntu looking to replace init

[Kevin Mark]

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Hi Peter, Ron,
On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 03:51:18PM -0400, Ron Guerin wrote:
> Peter C. Norton wrote:
> > It looks like the ubuntu team will be replacing init with a program
> > they're calling upstart.
> > 
> > http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/535
> > 
> > This is a really great, idea. I've been working with sun's SMF for a
> > week or so now, and I think they've got some of the right ideas, but
> > some of the wrong ones, too. I'm going to be following this and
> > hopefuly the ubuntu folks will get this right.
> > 
> > #1 thing they're doing right is making the system event-driven. This
> >  is something that is very wrong with the current init system.

I saw this a week ago as I read planet.debian.org and planet.ubuntu.com.
I like the idea and it should be an interesting experiment and hopefully
will help some of the problems that it was meant to address: race
conditions, sequential init script execution, removable device issue,
etc. which will result it faster startup and better reaction to network
and usb events as 3 obvious results.

> 
> I'd caught wind of this in the various threads about why some
> high-profile Debian developers have quit and gone over to Ubuntu,

There has been issues between Ubuntu and Debian ever since Canonical
persuaded several lead Debian developers to join their company and thus
split their time and possibly their loyalty and commitment between the
two. Some of the recent commontion was not just some out-of-the-blue
issue, some have been multi-year, pre-Ubuntu issues, in some cases and
some have been because of Ubuntu's 'teletubby' enviroment, as some
Debian folks say, where Ubuntu devs feel all happy-happy-joy-joy.
This is not a bad thing but either is the way Debian works, its just
'different'. And each group has vastly differnt goals, users and
communities. Plus Debian is 1,300 strong and Ubuntu is 100+ and
'culture' does not scale and need to redefined as you grow.

> including "the upstart guy", Scott James Remnant.  Debian's "management
> system" has clearly been broken for many years now, and they just don't
> seem to have the will to fix it, which is a shame... but I have to
> agree, something like this would never have come out of Debian,
I would certainly admit that Debian has issue but over that last year

many significant changes have been made to the way Debian works and
there are many efforts that are making progress on many fronts and
probably Ubuntu has had some impact on Debian. Although, Debian has 2
init script alternatives being developed with one being used for a SOC
(google) project for improving boot speed. And a Debian devel recently
ask for 'upstart' to be included in Debian, so, I'd expect it to be put
in 'experimental' soon enought for the curious. Debian did not have
anything against the new idea or the Ubuntu dev (and former Debian dev)
to not include it.

> they're
> much too busy being concerned with ripping necessary firmware out of
> drivers, and ripping out and putting back GNU FDL documentation.

These are issue that many, if not all, distros dont seem to care about.
When some issue like this gets sorted out in Debian, I can bet the farm
that every other distro will be sure that its free enought to use,
derive and redistribute in the way RMS wanted and they know that what
will come out of the Debian's vetting process will not get them sude for
using it.
cheers,
Kev
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