[nylug-talk] are we about to lose something?

Mon Nov 6 15:21:58 EST 2006

Use only free software.  Do not run any Novell code.  Do not
agree to any Microsoft EULA.

So I guess I also cannot run anything from RedHat either. It is not all free
software. In a business environment, there is not always the option to have
a debian or ubuntu server running financials.  When you can show me the NYSE
or any wall street bank change their systems over completely to "free
software", then I might change my mind.  And even if they switched, it would
be a customized kernel that they would change in house and not release.
Linux and free software make for a good base for new technology, but
avoiding anything that is not "free" will never make it based the business
directors who make corporate decisions.  I know it comes back to the
argument between FOSS and OSS and I am not meaning to get into it at this
time.  Yes the Novell-M$ alliance seems very strange now, and I am not sure
where it is going to go, but boycotting Novell all together will not solve
the issue.

On 11/6/06, Jay Sulzberger <jays at panix.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006, Gary Mort wrote:
>
> > geeknoob wrote:
> >> Silly question:
> >> Even if a Novell developer made Samba work for Novell's Suse (and SLES
> I
> >> assume) - will they (MS or possibly Novell - in fear of loosing market
> >> shares to other distro's or in fear of repercussions from MS) allow
> said
> >> developer to open that fix/addon/patch/whatever to the rest of the
> FLOSS
> >> community?  (Regardless of the developers' feelings on the matter
> regarding
> >> what he created.)
> >> Or, better yet, because Novell users of Suse alone are pardoned, will
> he
> >> release it, then all the other distro's be sued for trying to use or
> expand
> >> on it?
> > My feeling first of all is that looking over the terms of the agreement,
> at
> > no time does Novell admit that there are any Microsoft patents being
> > infringed(nor does Microsoft admit to infringing on Novell patents),
> they
> > merely say that any patents relating to a broad set of areas(including
> Samba
> > and CIFS) that MAY be valid each company grants the other company(and
> users
> > of that companies products as well as developers contributing to that
> > company) rights to those patents.
> >
> > So then, the issue comes into play that if a developer wished to
> investigate
> > this pre agreement, there are a host of laws Microsoft could swing at
> them.
> > And if they do have the technology patented, the developer could be sued
> for
> > patent infringment(and of course, even if the patent isn't valid, most
> > developers don't have the deep poclets to fight microsoft).
> >
> > Post agreement, a developer can investigate these issues without fear of
> a
> > lawsuit, as long as they are doing so to extend Novell's version of
> linux.
> > After determining the cause and the possible fixes, the developer can
> make an
> > educated decision about what solution is most likely to avoid any valid
> > patents held by both companies(for example, if Microsoft truely is just
> > truncating passwords which are too long before encrypting them, can it
> really
> > be argued that this is an 'invention' worthy of a patent?).  Thus the
> > developer can now realease code back to the open source community.
> >
> > There is still the danger that Microsoft may insist that the 'invention'
> > really is their IP, but that danger exists today regardless of this new
> > agreement.  This agreement gives developers who wish to work on
> integration
> > with Microsoft products the ability to do so without fear of lawsuits -
> but
> > it does not bind the developer into recognizing Microsoft's patent
> claims as
> > valid.
> >
> > Novell does not have the power to validate or invalidate Microsoft's
> patents.
> > All they can do is come to an agreement which says "there is a chance we
> > might be infringing, and based on that chance we will pay you X dollars
> to
> > avoid court cases".  It would be up to the courts and the patent office
> to
> > decide whether or not a patent is valid.
> >
> > Sure, Novell will work with Microsoft on their own to increase
> > interoperability.  And doing so may come to them inventing something new
> > which is their Intellectual Property.  And as they are concerned about
> their
> > bottom line, they may decide to release it as open source or keep it
> > proprietory.  But even then, the open source community benefits.  If a
> > company would be interested in setting up a Linux file server to compare
> > cost/performance to their Windows servers today, but due to the password
> > issue this is a no go - if that issue was fixed - even assuming Novell
> owns
> > the solution - the company will now have a Novell SUSE server sitting in
> > their data center.  They will be able to try out other solutions.  Maybe
> they
> > will discover a cost benefit to setting up their web servers on Linux,
> > instead of Windows.  And since web servers don't require that propietary
> > samba integration stuff, they go
> > with Red Hat Linux instead for those servers.
> >
> > In short, I see this arrangement as a good thing for Linux and good for
> the
> > Open Source community.  As long as the community doesn't fall into the
> trap
> > of thinking this agreement means Microsoft is friendly to them.
> > As long as we drive decisions based on business needs and business
> costs,
> > cases can be made for when Linux is appropriate, and when it is
> not.  And if
> > a particular solution requires closer integration with Windows than open
> > source solutions allow, having a more well integrated Linux solution for
> > those cases is a plus.
> >
> > In no way do I think Microsoft is doing this out of the goodness of
> their
> > hearts.  But nor do I assume this is some trap.  Considering the
> reciprocal
> > nature of this agreement, it is possible that Novell caught Microsoft
> with
> > their hands in the cookie jar using Novell propietary code designed for
> Linux
> > in Microsoft products.  Rather than face a major licensing cost, or
> pulling a
> > product, Novell forced Microsoft to this agreement instead which nets
> them a
> > ton of money, and gives them access to specific technologies that their
> own
> > customers have been saying they need integrated.
> >
> > Could Microsoft be digging a trap for Linux and Novell?  Yes they
> could.  And
> > I wouldn't trust them at all.  However, I certainly wouldn't turn up my
> nose
> > at any discoveries made through this event either(I can't count the
> number of
> > times I've seen people in my organizationgm complaining about what a
> failure
> > the corporate file sharing solution is because some passwords don't
> work, and
> > it takes them a whole extra FIVE minutes to change a password when it
> doesn't
> > work.  About how this is all the fault of samba and they certainly would
> not
> > recommend Linux to their clients because of this gross failure.  Is it
> really
> > worth alienating those people and decreasing the market share of Linux
> just
> > to avoid 'tainted' agreements?)
>
> Use only free software.  Do not run any Novell code.  Do not
> agree to any Microsoft EULA.
>
> as for "plots": Yes, formally, publically, and jointly, Microsoft
> and Novell here attack the free software movement by the formal,
> public, joint agreement to support software patents.  Novell and
> Microsoft have formally, publically, and jointly, declared their
> intention to attack, in court, and before frightened managers and
> ignorant reporters, every free software company that does not
> accede to Microsoft's demand for per copy sold payments to
> Microsoft.
>
> oo--JS.
>
>
> >
> >
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