[nylug-talk] are we about to lose something?

[Jay Sulzberger]

On Mon, 6 Nov 2006, Gary Mort wrote:

> geeknoob wrote:
>> Silly question:
>> Even if a Novell developer made Samba work for Novell's Suse (and SLES I 
>> assume) - will they (MS or possibly Novell - in fear of loosing market 
>> shares to other distro's or in fear of repercussions from MS) allow said 
>> developer to open that fix/addon/patch/whatever to the rest of the FLOSS 
>> community?  (Regardless of the developers' feelings on the matter regarding 
>> what he created.)
>> Or, better yet, because Novell users of Suse alone are pardoned, will he 
>> release it, then all the other distro's be sued for trying to use or expand 
>> on it?
> My feeling first of all is that looking over the terms of the agreement, at 
> no time does Novell admit that there are any Microsoft patents being 
> infringed(nor does Microsoft admit to infringing on Novell patents), they 
> merely say that any patents relating to a broad set of areas(including Samba 
> and CIFS) that MAY be valid each company grants the other company(and users 
> of that companies products as well as developers contributing to that 
> company) rights to those patents.
>
> So then, the issue comes into play that if a developer wished to investigate 
> this pre agreement, there are a host of laws Microsoft could swing at them. 
> And if they do have the technology patented, the developer could be sued for 
> patent infringment(and of course, even if the patent isn't valid, most 
> developers don't have the deep poclets to fight microsoft).
>
> Post agreement, a developer can investigate these issues without fear of a 
> lawsuit, as long as they are doing so to extend Novell's version of linux. 
> After determining the cause and the possible fixes, the developer can make an 
> educated decision about what solution is most likely to avoid any valid 
> patents held by both companies(for example, if Microsoft truely is just 
> truncating passwords which are too long before encrypting them, can it really 
> be argued that this is an 'invention' worthy of a patent?).  Thus the 
> developer can now realease code back to the open source community.
>
> There is still the danger that Microsoft may insist that the 'invention' 
> really is their IP, but that danger exists today regardless of this new 
> agreement.  This agreement gives developers who wish to work on integration 
> with Microsoft products the ability to do so without fear of lawsuits - but 
> it does not bind the developer into recognizing Microsoft's patent claims as 
> valid.
>
> Novell does not have the power to validate or invalidate Microsoft's patents. 
> All they can do is come to an agreement which says "there is a chance we 
> might be infringing, and based on that chance we will pay you X dollars to 
> avoid court cases".  It would be up to the courts and the patent office to 
> decide whether or not a patent is valid.
>
> Sure, Novell will work with Microsoft on their own to increase 
> interoperability.  And doing so may come to them inventing something new 
> which is their Intellectual Property.  And as they are concerned about their 
> bottom line, they may decide to release it as open source or keep it 
> proprietory.  But even then, the open source community benefits.  If a 
> company would be interested in setting up a Linux file server to compare 
> cost/performance to their Windows servers today, but due to the password 
> issue this is a no go - if that issue was fixed - even assuming Novell owns 
> the solution - the company will now have a Novell SUSE server sitting in 
> their data center.  They will be able to try out other solutions.  Maybe they 
> will discover a cost benefit to setting up their web servers on Linux, 
> instead of Windows.  And since web servers don't require that propietary 
> samba integration stuff, they go
> with Red Hat Linux instead for those servers.
>
> In short, I see this arrangement as a good thing for Linux and good for the 
> Open Source community.  As long as the community doesn't fall into the trap 
> of thinking this agreement means Microsoft is friendly to them. 
> As long as we drive decisions based on business needs and business costs, 
> cases can be made for when Linux is appropriate, and when it is not.  And if 
> a particular solution requires closer integration with Windows than open 
> source solutions allow, having a more well integrated Linux solution for 
> those cases is a plus.
>
> In no way do I think Microsoft is doing this out of the goodness of their 
> hearts.  But nor do I assume this is some trap.  Considering the reciprocal 
> nature of this agreement, it is possible that Novell caught Microsoft with 
> their hands in the cookie jar using Novell propietary code designed for Linux 
> in Microsoft products.  Rather than face a major licensing cost, or pulling a 
> product, Novell forced Microsoft to this agreement instead which nets them a 
> ton of money, and gives them access to specific technologies that their own 
> customers have been saying they need integrated.
>
> Could Microsoft be digging a trap for Linux and Novell?  Yes they could.  And 
> I wouldn't trust them at all.  However, I certainly wouldn't turn up my nose 
> at any discoveries made through this event either(I can't count the number of 
> times I've seen people in my organizationgm complaining about what a failure 
> the corporate file sharing solution is because some passwords don't work, and 
> it takes them a whole extra FIVE minutes to change a password when it doesn't 
> work.  About how this is all the fault of samba and they certainly would not 
> recommend Linux to their clients because of this gross failure.  Is it really 
> worth alienating those people and decreasing the market share of Linux just 
> to avoid 'tainted' agreements?)

Use only free software.  Do not run any Novell code.  Do not
agree to any Microsoft EULA.

as for "plots": Yes, formally, publically, and jointly, Microsoft
and Novell here attack the free software movement by the formal,
public, joint agreement to support software patents.  Novell and
Microsoft have formally, publically, and jointly, declared their
intention to attack, in court, and before frightened managers and
ignorant reporters, every free software company that does not
accede to Microsoft's demand for per copy sold payments to
Microsoft.

oo--JS.


>
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